Debian 10 footprint
Debian used be quite small after a base install. This is a plain new VPS, think I installed debian10 from the template in Virtualizor.
Then I did an apt update && apt -fu dist-upgrade
and installed tmux, sudo, vim and htop.
And it uses 1.3 GB of space.
1.1 GB for /usr (most in libs iirc)
364 packages installed.
I did run apt clean
.
Wonder if there was a bit more than I expected in the default template, or if I didn't pay attention when upgrading/installing. (Some CLI utils triggers weird deps sometimes.)
Or is Debian just becoming a large base install by default?
(Almost tempted to go for Alpine, but been a Debian user for so long.)
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Yeah, looks like about 1.3 GB after installing from ISO as well (selecting just base system and ssh server package groups during the install)
I added just a few packages via apt after installation:
atop htop iperf mtr-tiny curl git sudo
And there are now a total of 347 packages returned by
apt list --installed
HS4LIFE (+ (* 3 4) (* 5 6))
I learn that convenience and size are mutually exclusive: you trade installation size for convenience.
Tried Alpine, super small, yes, but I need things that are not compiled with musl.
Compile yourself you say? Yeah that means lots of devtools and compile time and ain't nobody got time for that?
So I returned to Debian.
And that's because I haven't owned a true LES yet.
The all seeing eye sees everything...
Runs super slim on VZ7
@les-deb-10# cat /etc/debian_version
10.2
@les-deb-10# uname -a
Linux les-deb-10 4.19.0 #1 SMP Thu Jun 27 15:10:55 MSK 2019 x86_64 GNU/Linux
And this is why OpenVZ will always have a place
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Good to hear that I didn't miss/overlook something vital.
So,
mtr-tiny
is a separate package. I thinkmtr
is one of those which made me wonder, when it pulled in lots of seemingly irrelevant packages. (In a previous install.)Still, Debian has increased quite a bit since Stretch and whatever 8.x was called?
I do try to stick with distro maintained packages, yes, self compiling requires more maintenance effort as well.
That's the main thing with Debian for me: Unattended upgrades, been running that for years, only need to pay attention to important kernel upgrades.
Wow. That's better.
(Less packages installed. I assume you just installed ssh-server package, not the tasksel option from the installer.)
I've been meaning to ask this, as I never tried OpenVZ.
I heard some complain about it, something about I/O performance with software RAID being poor.
From old LES forum it seems OpenVPN is a common use (which needs TUN/TAP?).
And if I have understood correctly OpenVZ is more of a container than a full VM, sharing the hosts kernel. (Not sure how it handles newer installed kernels inside the VM, when it's sharing with host?)
Any particular benefits of OpenVZ vs LXC/LXD?
(I understood some are concerned with privacy, how well protected the LXC containers actually are.)
Maybe I should get me an OpenVZ instance just for fun.
LXC is fine for your own private use, where you control the containers as well as the host node. It is insufficient for VPS providers, where the containers are untrusted.
Software RAID can be just fine, but with VPSes the storage is managed by the provider, whether it's hardware RAID or software is transparent to you as a user.
OpenVZ shares the host kernel, yes. VZ7 finally updates the host kernel to a reasonably recent one.
Pick up a NAT VZ7 from Anthony! https://clients.inceptionhosting.com/cart.php?gid=13
have been using Alpine for a while, it works well, compiling things can some times be an issue, but i dont need anything to compile since I am running most of my stuff inside Docker
interesting...
debian10 on ovz7 is indeed leaner.
$ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/ploop10565p1 2.9G 452M 2.3G 17% /
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Ignore that, it is nonsense.
Indeed, you can enable it by clicking a button in the control panel.
Yes, openvz is a container based system, it handles nered kernels by backporting the host node kernel to support it and then the host node simply lies to the container and says .. you are 4.9.x dont worry about it and it works because the functions exit in the host node kernel anyway.
LXD/C is intended for self controlled single platforms or known multi users, not multi tenant/ unknown neighbors hosting environments, as such OpenVZ is the better choice, in terms of performance they are essentially identical.
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Well, I know he had real issues, but it might not be due to the OpenVZ architecture, I guess.
You can get crappy performance using expensive hardware RAID cards too, so they aren't a silver bullet for IO performance.
Back in the day when we were lucky to get 2 single core procs, sure get a RAID card with a mem cache and battery backup to offload write caching and parity calculations. Now, it doesn't really matter.
When installing Debian, installing "standard" task from tasksel is not necessary. As of Debian 10 there are 72 base packages, and "standard" task has 38 more (perl, python, wget). That's not including their own dependencies. I wonder if these images have "standard" enabled.
Also by default apt-get installs "recommended" packages alongside dependency packages. Debian becomes noticeably smaller when you disable this feature, though software often breaks.
In this case the VPS template wasn't made by me, but I guess I could check if standard is installed. And maybe use deborphan or something to clean up stuff.
Some years ago I think apt-get did not install those, while dselect and/or synaptic did.
I guess I should read a bit on
man apt.conf
Debian 10 has a lower carbon footprint than Toyota Prius.