New tag 'Freelancer' discuss.

InceptionHosting · December 2019

Hi Folks,

This is an idea I had over at LET AGES ago but got drown in people shouting $7 for even suggesting it

But following a few PM requests and a hosting provider tag request that did not quite fit the bill as a hosting provider I have decided to do it, it can only benefit the community, certainly no harm.

I have updated the rules post but tl;dr

Freelancers can post offers once in any calendar month
They can post LES exclusive offers until the cows come home
They don't need to be a registered business
Any arrangements you make are between you and them
It is intended for people that offer services not directly connected to the hosting industry e.g. web design, code, development, graphics, tutorials and teaching, server setup etc.

It will evolve over time and if rules need to be tightened in response to incidents then they will be at that time.

If people are looking for help, workers, development, graphics, server installs etc etc then I would suggest using the requests category would probably make the most sense.

I have also invited a few people I know to provide such services to a high level of quality come and take part, hopefully they do.

happy to hear any constructive thoughts around this from the community.

Amitz · December 2019

USD 7.

No, seriously, absolutely worth a try and something different. I generally like the idea.

elliotc · December 2019

Nope, $7( shouting)

elliotc · December 2019

How does Freelancers get certified, and the standards?

cybertech · December 2019

This could differentiate us from the gutter.

Also how about offering body services. All I have for now

InceptionHosting · December 2019

@elliotc said:
How does Freelancers get certified, and the standards?

To be absolute in that is beyond the limitations of this forum, I will provide links to their websites on the freelancer register, I will apply common sense when giving out tags though, if someone I do not know of myself has been here 5 minutes and wants to start offering work its a no bob.

i am open to suggestions though.

For example we all (most of us) know @joepie91 I have paid him for work myself, I know he has been offering services on LEG for a long time without incident.

I know @MikePT offers excellent services in terms of support and DA migrations etc, he has not yet applied for a tag but he would be welcome to one.

@ReadyDedis is bharatB who i know has done a ton of freelance work without public incident so he got a tag when requested.

For now it is going to have to be done on a common sense basis, i will not be giving the tags out just because someone asked, i will be giving people that ask a bit of a shake down if I do not know them or of them personally.

the application of common sense and due diligence applies to me and the people looking to get work done, additionally if there are hosting providers that also offer freelance work, they are welcome to a freelancer tag also.

I suggest people use the profile page to place and read reviews for freelancers, in time the profile page will become a lot more advanced with some planned development work in that area, a rating system is not out of the question and links to examples of past work too.

tgl · December 2019

yeah, it sounds like a good idea, one thing though

not more than $7/hour

InceptionHosting · December 2019

@tgl said:
yeah, it sounds like a good idea, one thing though

not more than $7/hour

That's not reasonable, it may even be illegal if applying a per hour limit to someones work I would have to do that per country to make it a fair playing field and for now that would be manual and frankly, not a sustainable model for me to maintain.

I get where you are coming from but hiring someone to repair your esx cluster vs paying someone to install OpenVPN on a NAT server for you vs logo design are on such different spectrum's I just cant put an hourly rate on it.

The idea behind this really, at it's core, is that on LET a lot of people had host tags that were not hosts, if even hosting service providers, it was a bit silly, this closes that gap properly.

I open to suggestions but consider giving it room to breath as well.

Also as a general point, no one need worry about this, if it fails to launch, is not used much and generally causes problems, I will just scrap the idea, remove the tags and that will be that, if it takes off we/I will adapt as required.

elliotc · December 2019

Human resource is not that cheap. Even working in Mcdonald are more than $7/hr.

Amitz · December 2019

Now I understand why my buddy who is working at McDo gets all the girls.

Mr_Tom · December 2019

Interesting idea.

Might be tempted on requesting one too...

Rahul · December 2019

@cam is the biggest Freelancer in the entire Low End World.

deank · December 2019

Give me a troll tag.

Chievo · December 2019

What about a dental tag?

lightblade · December 2019

Nice idea.. let's me see how this works.. i'm still confusing about pay-rates if not using hourly.

poisson · December 2019

@Chievo said:
What about a dental tag?

You can freelance on LES as a dentist.

seriesn · December 2019

I like the idea. Very neat and clean. But I do believe, while difficult, similar pricing logic (not as cheap as $7/hr) should be applied based on task. I.e

Basic design : $70 for xyz custom pages.

And the reason is, only because LEA had $7 rule is how all these company figured out a way to offer more and more for the same pricing. So while not be as intense as $7/hour but a maximum limit of let's say $20/project can be applied.

So when someone is posting their offer, they can customize their offer package to cater towards that and one is always welcome to communicate personally and get custom quotes for bigger tasks.

InceptionHosting · December 2019

@lightblade said:
Nice idea.. let's me see how this works.. i'm still confusing about pay-rates if not using hourly.

I will give you some examples of how I imagine this will work.

[request] Logo design

Looking for someone to create a logo, vectors included, 3 colours (colors), text + images, with a pack to use on marketing materials.

[offer] (made by freelancer)

take a look at my portfolio, I can do this starting from $50

[offer] (made by another freelancer)

take a look at my portfolio, I can do this starting from $20

[request]

Need a script to automatically backup my site files and mysql database hourly to a remote location over ssh and also a script to restore it on a destination server.

The script should take care of updating any information required for it to just run on the destination (assuming I have installed the software on the other side, apache/mariadb/php)

I would like to be able to simply run: site-bigfeet.com-restore.sh and have it get the latest backup from the remote server, restore the site, create the site config in apache and it will be live when I update my DNS.

[offer] (made by a freelancer)

I have experience with this sort of thing, check out my gitlab public stuffs 'link' I could probably do that for $30 if you are in no rush or $70 if you need it done super quick.

[post] (made by a regular user)

Why bother paying for that when you can use this.. 'link'

[post] (made by a regular user)

I can probably do that for free 'shows example script'

[request]

Need a WHMCS module that prevents people from opening support tickets unless they have a specific add-on active on their account.

[offer] (made by a freelancer)

That is a bit complex because WHMCS is a steaming pile, but i can probably do that with some time for $150 one time or $30 if you allow me to sell it on public release after a month or so of you testing it.

I will also need you to provide a WHMCS environment to work with.

[offer] (made by a freelancer)

I will do that for $300 one time, you own the code when done, no future maintenance included.

MikePT · December 2019

AnthonySmith said: I know @MikePT offers excellent services in terms of support and DA migrations etc, he has not yet applied for a tag but he would be welcome to one.

Hi Anthony!

Definitely interested. I do provide SysAdmin services (such as DA migrations, or anything else, really) as well as Whitelabel Ticket Support! :-)
Would be glad to have such tag!

uhu · December 2019

@deank said:
Give me a troll tag.

Only if I can have an Idler tag.

Ympker · December 2019

I absolutely like the idea It will add some more value to LES considering the amount of skilled people here.

joepie91 · December 2019

seriesn said: And the reason is, only because LEA had $7 rule is how all these company figured out a way to offer more and more for the same pricing. So while not be as intense as $7/hour but a maximum limit of let's say $20/project can be applied.

The problem is that while hosting services are essentially a commodity product and so benefit from economies of scale, the same is not true for tailored work. There just isn't a lot of room to cut rates without cutting serious corners on quality, because everybody has a finite number of hours in a day, and certain fixed costs of living.

To put it into perspective: even if a 'project' only took 1 hour of someone's time (and that's almost never the case, when you take into account the discussion of requirements etc.), $20 would, after taxes, already be below minimum wage in a decent chunk of Europe. And minimum wage is often too low for people to reasonably pay their living expenses.

The economics just don't work the same as for commodity products, where you can decrease cost by selling more of an essentially-infinite supply, automate work away, and so on.

corey · December 2019

I think we should highly suggest people go through a third party site that specializes in freelancer work to hire these freelancers. There are so many benefits of those sites.

Ympker · December 2019

@corey said:
I think we should highly suggest people go through a third party site that specializes in freelancer work to hire these freelancers. There are so many benefits of those sites.

Like Fiverr taking xx% of your sales? There are benefits to it, though. It's not black and white is all I'm saying

corey · December 2019

@Ympker said:

@corey said:
I think we should highly suggest people go through a third party site that specializes in freelancer work to hire these freelancers. There are so many benefits of those sites.

Like Fiverr taking xx% of your sales? There are benefits to it, though. It's not black and white is all I'm saying

At least the first time you hire someone yes. The buyer usually pays those fees anyway.

joepie91 · December 2019

@corey said:
I think we should highly suggest people go through a third party site that specializes in freelancer work to hire these freelancers. There are so many benefits of those sites.

As someone who freelances for a living: I absolutely would not ever use any of these sites again. Their cut is insane, they place severe restrictions on how you can do your work (in terms of communication and such), they're 100% built around the lowest price and quality is pretty much not a factor (which means you're always in a race to the bottom), and they are generally designed to trap freelancers in their system, by disallowing off-site communication and such. These sites are highly exploitative.

You basically can't make a living off these sites unless you live in a country with tiny living expenses and no legal protections.

corey · December 2019

@joepie91 said:

@corey said:
I think we should highly suggest people go through a third party site that specializes in freelancer work to hire these freelancers. There are so many benefits of those sites.

As someone who freelances for a living: I absolutely would not ever use any of these sites again. Their cut is insane, they place severe restrictions on how you can do your work (in terms of communication and such), they're 100% built around the lowest price and quality is pretty much not a factor (which means you're always in a race to the bottom), and they are generally designed to trap freelancers in their system, by disallowing off-site communication and such. These sites are highly exploitative.

You basically can't make a living off these sites unless you live in a country with tiny living expenses and no legal protections.

Noone said you had to make a living off these sites. I'm just saying I would suggest anyone to use these sites with a new freelancer they haven't worked with before. The communication offsite and the race to the bottom is completely irrelevant here because you already met on lowendspirit and agreed to terms here. I'm simply begging people to use the platform so they don't get scammed. Build a relationship with a freelancer before you let loose.

joepie91 · December 2019

@corey said:

@joepie91 said:

@corey said:
I think we should highly suggest people go through a third party site that specializes in freelancer work to hire these freelancers. There are so many benefits of those sites.

As someone who freelances for a living: I absolutely would not ever use any of these sites again. Their cut is insane, they place severe restrictions on how you can do your work (in terms of communication and such), they're 100% built around the lowest price and quality is pretty much not a factor (which means you're always in a race to the bottom), and they are generally designed to trap freelancers in their system, by disallowing off-site communication and such. These sites are highly exploitative.

You basically can't make a living off these sites unless you live in a country with tiny living expenses and no legal protections.

Noone said you had to make a living off these sites. I'm just saying I would suggest anyone to use these sites with a new freelancer they haven't worked with before. The communication offsite and the race to the bottom is completely irrelevant here because you already met on lowendspirit and agreed to terms here. I'm simply begging people to use the platform so they don't get scammed. Build a relationship with a freelancer before you let loose.

If a potential customer asked me to work through such a site, my answer would be "thanks, but no thanks". The only "benefit" of such a site in terms of not-getting-scammed would be the escrow service, which is useless if you're going to be communicating off-site, since they will only take into consideration whatever has been said through the site. And if I can't communicate off-site, I can't do my work properly.

If getting scammed is your concern, either look for an independent escrow service (that will actually review off-site communications, if needed), or just figure out a payment scheme where the risk is limited for both sides. Freelancing sites really aren't going to improve matters here, and they introduce entirely too much bullshit that I personally would not even consider dealing with.

alento · December 2019

I think that this is an excellent idea, and I will be submitting my application, soon.

Thanks!

deank · December 2019

@AntFish, pretty please?

I am a troll and will forever be.

elliotc · December 2019

@Amitz said:
Now I understand why my buddy who is working at McDo gets all the girls.

Offtopic: Honestly, Mcdonald have tons of part time high school girls and pretty easy to get.

New tag 'Freelancer' discuss.

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