@legendary said:
But what if LES introduce expensive, but insanely packed deals? For example:
Newest gen AMD CPUs
From 256GB RAM
From 1 TB NVMe
Minimum 32 IPs
GigE+ pipe, dedicated
500€/month
It is actually pretty hard to find decent deals in the wild. All those cheap, lowend deals are not suitable for prod.
Searched for those specifications on ServerHunter, OVH has multiple options around 200 dollars, and if the IP requirement can be relaxed, there's always Hetzner. Also, WHT has good deals from WebNX etc.
All in all, I wouldn't mind some relaxation of the limits, but this is LowEnd, and we shouldn't lose sight of that.
@Mason said:
That is very intentional. The current iteration of LES was a fork or clone or whatever you want to call it of LET. Designed to be very similar with essentially the same rules, same forum software, same target audience, but without all the ColoCrossing/Biloh-endorsed scams and cash grabs.
I think it's slightly ironic if it was a fork that this forum has a nice clean feel and LET looks so janky in comparison. Also nice that the conversation here is generally more civil even when it's the same people doing the chatting, although that can also be a downside as it's nice to partake in the occasionally trolling at LET.
How about same rules, But a premium category where we still get low priced deals but on better hardware or services
Many companies are put off because they can't offer a good service AND a good product for $7. I'm not saying throw out the rulebook but I'd never attempt to compete in this market because I couldn't provide the service I want to at these limits. Next year we're launching something I'd love to advertise here but at the existing prices its not going to be viable
I love the community, I lurked since inception due to working for a company that didnt want us on any of the forums (specifically OGF) but it doesn't feel like a bad idea to add a premium category!
@Advin said:
Honestly, I feel like LES should allow providers to post offers for ranges of products which might include something that isn't in the price range but must include something that is within the price range.
For example, let's say we had the following plans (this is just an example):
1GB for $2/month
2GB for $4/month
3GB for $6/month
4GB for $8/month
5GB for $10/month
etc
Under the existing LES rules, I believe we would only be allowed to advertise 1GB, 2GB, 3GB plans on LES. However, it would probably be beneficial to us to also advertise the bigger plans along with the smaller plans for those who require more resources (so making an offer thread & advertising 1GB, 2GB, 3GB but also advertising 4GB, 5GB, etc since it's part of the same lineup/range of products).
But yes, the current limits are quite limiting for us since we generally specialize in bulk resources for cheap. For example, our recent LES Exclusive thread generated some major interest from the community but it had to be LES exclusive since it doesn't fall into the pricing limits for the normal offers.
Reasonable idea, but still need a cap for the price. Here is lowend after all, and the spirit is do more with less. Not only money but also resources.
@Advin said:
Under the existing LES rules, I believe we would only be allowed to advertise 1GB, 2GB, 3GB plans on LES. However, it would probably be beneficial to us to also advertise the bigger plans along with the smaller plans for those who require more resources
our recent LES Exclusive thread generated some major interest from the community but it had to be LES exclusive since it doesn't fall into the pricing limits for the normal offers.
Reasonable idea, but still need a cap for the price. Here is lowend after all, and the spirit is do more with less. Not only money but also resources.
Given the existence of LES exclusive category that has no pricing limits, it should be enough.
The "exclusive" requirement just restricts exactly same offer.
You could post a similar offer elsewhere that differs by $0.01 price or differs by 1MB disk capacity, which would not violate exclusive rules.
@yoursunny said:
...which would not violate exclusive rules.
While technically true, this would certainly not being in the spirit of what that category is for.
@chris said:
How about same rules, But a premium category where we still get low priced deals but on better hardware or services
Might be possible, but I don't think we'd want to detract too much from the bread and butter $7 or less offers. Maybe a happy medium would be to add a category with way relaxed pricing rules, but wouldn't be listed on the main page's list of threads -- meaning you'd need to hit a link in the menu or perhaps a new sidebar widget that lists out the latest offers? Just spitballing here.
Maybe let providers offer what they like, but at least every other offer has to be within the price range (and a reasonable quantity so they don't just have a limit of 1).
Might be possible, but I don't think we'd want to detract too much from the bread and butter $7 or less offers. Maybe a happy medium would be to add a category with way relaxed pricing rules, but wouldn't be listed on the main page's list of threads -- meaning you'd need to hit a link in the menu or perhaps a new sidebar widget that lists out the latest offers? Just spitballing here.
Yes, I like that! And also @ralf idea! Yeah, It's all just throwing ideas out there! I certainly don't want to see LES lose touch with it's roots but I also don't want to read the same offers from the same companies we all know will deadpool or sell eventually
@ralf said:
Maybe let providers offer what they like, but at least every other offer has to be within the price range (and a reasonable quantity so they don't just have a limit of 1).
I think it's reasonable to have higher priced offers, as long as the same product line also contains lower priced offers.
Same product line means same CPU model, RAM kind, disk kind, locations; they can only differ in quantity.
It doesn't have to be "every other offer".
There should still be a final upper bound, such as $24/month.
Good:
Ryzen 2GB: $4/month
Ryzen 4GB: $7/month
Ryzen 8GB: $12/month
Good:
Storage 1TB: $6/month
Storage 2TB: $11/month
Storage 4TB: $20/month
Not good: (not same product line)
Ryzen 2GB: $4/month
Storage 2TB: $11/month
Storage 4TB: $20/month
Not good: (different location, so not same product line)
@ralf said:
Maybe let providers offer what they like, but at least every other offer has to be within the price range (and a reasonable quantity so they don't just have a limit of 1).
I think it's reasonable to have higher priced offers, as long as the same product line also contains lower priced offers.
Same product line means same CPU model, RAM kind, disk kind, locations; they can only differ in quantity.
It doesn't have to be "every other offer".
There should still be a final upper bound, such as $24/month.
Good:
Ryzen 2GB: $4/month
Ryzen 4GB: $7/month
Ryzen 8GB: $12/month
Good:
Storage 1TB: $6/month
Storage 2TB: $11/month
Storage 4TB: $20/month
Not good: (not same product line)
Ryzen 2GB: $4/month
Storage 2TB: $11/month
Storage 4TB: $20/month
Not good: (different location, so not same product line)
Dallas 1GB: $3/month
Dallas 2GB: $6/month
Singapore 4GB: $15/month
Not good: (no low price offer)
Ryzen 6GB: $9/month
Ryzen 8GB: $12/month
Ryzen 10GB: $15/month
Same specs for chicken in Singapore, Tokyo, Mumbai, Sydney and HK but $7 premium because “bandwidth is expensive “
Is say pricing should be based on offerings. Don't think anyone really buys based on minimum price but moreso recources/$. Maybe have like storage offer have to beat x$/tb kinda thing
Recommended hosts:
Letbox, Data ideas, Hetzner, DediPath
@ReliableSite_Radic said:
You're doing nothing but limiting target audiences with artificial limits.
I mean... that's the entire point of LE*. Otherwise we'd just be WebHostingSpirit instead of LowEndSpirit
I disagree here. These old configurations offer a terrible $/performance ratio and don't have much lower to go. It's below colo cost, and are treated as nothing more than a loss leader to convert to higher paying servers.
For example, I can get you a bare bones E3 (8G RAM, HDD or SSD) in the high $20 range, or a fully loaded Ryzen 5600X (128G RAM, 1T PCIe 4.0 NVMe) in the high $80s range. The E3 in this case is a terrible deal.
Plenty of providers don't want to deal in the $20 - $30 range, there's 0 profit there, but they can offer aggressive deals in the profitable range. As software, data center space, and hardware continues to increase in price, this will be the ongoing trend and will eventually kill off or force those super low end providers to deadpool.
So the choice really is here, have the same providers peddling the same hardware for years and years serving a super niche audience, or remove the limits and figure out a way to really create a marketplace where you can get uber aggressive deals without becoming WHT.
This was the problem we started to notice back when the E3's used to sell for $225+ years ago. Personally even renting some E3's out for the $55 range isn't typically worth wild even for us. We offer it for existing customers who need a lower end system who want it for a firewall or some other type of service.
After taking in the bare costs of colo being at the least $20+ on a low end system it's just hard to justify doing something so low. Personally we try not doing much under the $75 range when possible. Even more so with larger power hungry systems such as dual E5-2680v3/4's etc. The bad part is they perform just as good typically as a lot of scalable systems which are newer and far more costly.
I think the limits should more so depend on maybe VPS's which you can bash out some of those quite cheap while still providing a good service.
Dedicated and colo on the other hand there are some great offerings to have but might be a little above the current budgets.
We don't typically post on here due to some of the price limits and just being a bit lazy. It's more of a check out some posts every few days and see what's happening in the community.
@vyas said:
For those who believe LES will turn into a WHT if price caps are revised, I respect your opinion. And I believe in doing More with LES (pun intended).
That's the main issue, I think people are rightly worried of it becoming a different place than we all know and enjoy. I think everyone has the same end goal but have varying ways to achieve it!
But till the time prices on LES match such mad levels, why are we un necessarily worried?
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There's certainly a market for it! I will be the first honest person to say if people would pay it - I'd charge it lol
I don't want to pay more than $7 a month for idlers.
I've found the offers on LES/LET useful when I need a small box doing very specific tasks. I like knowing I can come here to find a somewhat reliable VPS in a somewhat useful datacenter for a few dollars per month without wading through larger offerings.
@rockinmusicgv said:
I don't want to pay more than $7 a month for idlers.
I've found the offers on LES/LET useful when I need a small box doing very specific tasks. I like knowing I can come here to find a somewhat reliable VPS in a somewhat useful datacenter for a few dollars per month without wading through larger offerings.
I see you point. Howerver, as far as I can tell, technically, a provider can give an 96% discount for the first month to be within the price range and post offers - but you pay the regular price afterwards. Not a perfect scenario for idlers (correct me if I'm wrong - I know that for some use cases people spin up a Hetzner service for just a week or so, but am not sure if that's very common).
I saw such an offer for reseller hosting (what I usually use).
Comparing that VS doubling the limits - I'd rather see the limits doubled, but the rules insisting on the discount being a recurring one (LES-exclusive if need be).
Comments
But what if LES introduce expensive, but insanely packed deals? For example:
Newest gen AMD CPUs
From 256GB RAM
From 1 TB NVMe
Minimum 32 IPs
GigE+ pipe, dedicated
500€/month
It is actually pretty hard to find decent deals in the wild. All those cheap, lowend deals are not suitable for prod.
Searched for those specifications on ServerHunter, OVH has multiple options around 200 dollars, and if the IP requirement can be relaxed, there's always Hetzner. Also, WHT has good deals from WebNX etc.
All in all, I wouldn't mind some relaxation of the limits, but this is LowEnd, and we shouldn't lose sight of that.
I think it's slightly ironic if it was a fork that this forum has a nice clean feel and LET looks so janky in comparison. Also nice that the conversation here is generally more civil even when it's the same people doing the chatting, although that can also be a downside as it's nice to partake in the occasionally trolling at LET.
I'm fine with LES just staying LES, otherwise what is the point?
LES • About • Donate • Rules • Support
How about same rules, But a premium category where we still get low priced deals but on better hardware or services
Many companies are put off because they can't offer a good service AND a good product for $7. I'm not saying throw out the rulebook but I'd never attempt to compete in this market because I couldn't provide the service I want to at these limits. Next year we're launching something I'd love to advertise here but at the existing prices its not going to be viable
I love the community, I lurked since inception due to working for a company that didnt want us on any of the forums (specifically OGF) but it doesn't feel like a bad idea to add a premium category!
Chris on https://hostingforums.net/
Reasonable idea, but still need a cap for the price. Here is lowend after all, and the spirit is do more with less. Not only money but also resources.
Action and Reaction in history
Given the existence of LES exclusive category that has no pricing limits, it should be enough.
The "exclusive" requirement just restricts exactly same offer.
You could post a similar offer elsewhere that differs by $0.01 price or differs by 1MB disk capacity, which would not violate exclusive rules.
Webhosting24 aff best VPS; ServerFactory aff best VDS; Cloudie best ASN; Huel aff best brotein.
$7/month is already a lot.
While technically true, this would certainly not being in the spirit of what that category is for.
Might be possible, but I don't think we'd want to detract too much from the bread and butter $7 or less offers. Maybe a happy medium would be to add a category with way relaxed pricing rules, but wouldn't be listed on the main page's list of threads -- meaning you'd need to hit a link in the menu or perhaps a new sidebar widget that lists out the latest offers? Just spitballing here.
Head Janitor @ LES • About • Rules • Support • Donate
Maybe let providers offer what they like, but at least every other offer has to be within the price range (and a reasonable quantity so they don't just have a limit of 1).
Yes, I like that! And also @ralf idea! Yeah, It's all just throwing ideas out there! I certainly don't want to see LES lose touch with it's roots but I also don't want to read the same offers from the same companies we all know will deadpool or sell eventually
Chris on https://hostingforums.net/
I think it's reasonable to have higher priced offers, as long as the same product line also contains lower priced offers.
Same product line means same CPU model, RAM kind, disk kind, locations; they can only differ in quantity.
It doesn't have to be "every other offer".
There should still be a final upper bound, such as $24/month.
Good:
Good:
Not good: (not same product line)
Not good: (different location, so not same product line)
Not good: (no low price offer)
Webhosting24 aff best VPS; ServerFactory aff best VDS; Cloudie best ASN; Huel aff best brotein.
Same specs for chicken in Singapore, Tokyo, Mumbai, Sydney and HK but $7 premium because “bandwidth is expensive “
VPS reviews and benchmarks |
Good: (at least one offer in Singapore within $7; other locations are irrelevant)
Good: (one product line with two locations, first plan within $7, limited bonus)
Webhosting24 aff best VPS; ServerFactory aff best VDS; Cloudie best ASN; Huel aff best brotein.
Is say pricing should be based on offerings. Don't think anyone really buys based on minimum price but moreso recources/$. Maybe have like storage offer have to beat x$/tb kinda thing
Recommended hosts:
Letbox, Data ideas, Hetzner, DediPath
I did a quick scan of the offers and could see
“can we stack?”
Kind of enquiries or
“can we upgrade in future?”
Type of queries.
About 1 in every 3 offers have such questions.
So maybe there is appetite to pay more but providers are restricted in HW combination because of price cap.
Overall,
Most popular types of questions however remain:
Benchmarks?
LG?
Recurring offer ?
Btw:
Dipstick check for offer posts on OGF:
Questions that are more popular include-
BGP?
DMCA?
Crypto?
So the audience may be similar between the two green forums but distinct flavours in sub sections.
VPS reviews and benchmarks |
You need to think outside the box. Maybe something like a voting system by members, similar to how slickdeals does it?
Not being so low priced for everything I say yay. However, it really depends. > @ReliableSite_Radic said:
This was the problem we started to notice back when the E3's used to sell for $225+ years ago. Personally even renting some E3's out for the $55 range isn't typically worth wild even for us. We offer it for existing customers who need a lower end system who want it for a firewall or some other type of service.
After taking in the bare costs of colo being at the least $20+ on a low end system it's just hard to justify doing something so low. Personally we try not doing much under the $75 range when possible. Even more so with larger power hungry systems such as dual E5-2680v3/4's etc. The bad part is they perform just as good typically as a lot of scalable systems which are newer and far more costly.
I think the limits should more so depend on maybe VPS's which you can bash out some of those quite cheap while still providing a good service.
Dedicated and colo on the other hand there are some great offerings to have but might be a little above the current budgets.
We don't typically post on here due to some of the price limits and just being a bit lazy. It's more of a check out some posts every few days and see what's happening in the community.
PureVoltage - Custom Dedicated Servers Dual E5-2680v3 64gb ram 1TB nvme 100TB/10g $145
New York Colocation - Amazing pricing 1U-48U+
For those who believe LES will turn into a WHT if price caps are revised, I respect your opinion. And I believe in doing More with LES (pun intended).
But till the time prices on LES match such mad levels, why are we un necessarily worried?
For shared hosting
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That's the main issue, I think people are rightly worried of it becoming a different place than we all know and enjoy. I think everyone has the same end goal but have varying ways to achieve it!
There's certainly a market for it! I will be the first honest person to say if people would pay it - I'd charge it lol
Chris on https://hostingforums.net/
@chris said
No shame/harm in it. There is a market and then there are market categories !!
VPS reviews and benchmarks |
I say we don't change the limits, and even if we do, $14 is too much.
I don't want to pay more than $7 a month for idlers.
I've found the offers on LES/LET useful when I need a small box doing very specific tasks. I like knowing I can come here to find a somewhat reliable VPS in a somewhat useful datacenter for a few dollars per month without wading through larger offerings.
I see you point. Howerver, as far as I can tell, technically, a provider can give an 96% discount for the first month to be within the price range and post offers - but you pay the regular price afterwards. Not a perfect scenario for idlers (correct me if I'm wrong - I know that for some use cases people spin up a Hetzner service for just a week or so, but am not sure if that's very common).
I saw such an offer for reseller hosting (what I usually use).
Comparing that VS doubling the limits - I'd rather see the limits doubled, but the rules insisting on the discount being a recurring one (LES-exclusive if need be).
Detailed info about providers whose services I've used:
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