@AlwaysSkint said: Reserve: I set at a sort of conservative $500
At $260 I may have reconsidered.
you can refuse final bidding price like that?
someone need to educate me how auction works
Well, in the opening post, we see:
Reserve: I set at a sort of conservative $500
The opening post was edited after its initial creation, but let's assume that this info about the reserve was present from the beginning
Since "a sort of conservative $500" is vague, the OP should have communicated the exact reserve amount to a mod or admin, following this rule:
You can set a hidden reserve on your domain by PM'ing me the domain name and the reserve prior to posting the sale, you must make it known that there is a reserve though.
It's not clear to me whether this happened.
Under the rules for domain sales you can sell a domain in one of two ways at LES.
Set a price, that is the price and you can see if anyone wants to buy it for that price.
Make an auction, maximum starting price is $7, but stating that there is a reserve is allowed. You can make the reserve hidden, in which case a mod must be notified before hand, so as to verify what the reserve price was at the end of the auction, and if the reserve has been met or not by the highest bidder. A reserve amount can also be stated in the open, as this one was, and then a mod does not need to be notified as it is plain for everyone to see what the reserve is. The seller can, but is not obligated to sell the domain if the reserve is not met by the highest bidder.
In the case of this auction I was aware of the openly stated reserve when the auction started and can verify that it has not changed.
EDIT: It was also clear to me that the reserve was $500
@AlwaysSkint said: Reserve: I set at a sort of conservative $500
At $260 I may have reconsidered.
you can refuse final bidding price like that?
someone need to educate me how auction works
Well, in the opening post, we see:
Reserve: I set at a sort of conservative $500
The opening post was edited after its initial creation, but let's assume that this info about the reserve was present from the beginning
Since "a sort of conservative $500" is vague, the OP should have communicated the exact reserve amount to a mod or admin, following this rule:
You can set a hidden reserve on your domain by PM'ing me the domain name and the reserve prior to posting the sale, you must make it known that there is a reserve though.
It's not clear to me whether this happened.
I don't think it's vague. The reserve was $500. He expected it to be worth substantially more than it was here. He might have accepted the non-winning bid if it was high enough but it wasn't.
Okay, I see
I said "vague" because
Reserve: I set at a sort of conservative $500
sounds less sharp than
Reserve: $500
I mean, wouldn't it be more to the point just give the reserve amount plainly without a inserting a personal evaluation (?) of the reserve amount together with the reserve amount?
In any case, I'll leave it at this and I don't question the validity of the auction. (It was simply this line about the reserve that gave me pause)
"A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)
Does that means that seller can deny any bid which is under reserve value?
Yes, if the reserve price is not met by the highest bidder at the end of the auction period the seller may choose to accept the highest bid price, but is under no obligation to do so. If the seller does accept the highest bid, even if it did not meet the reserve price, the bidder is required to follow through with payment and the seller is required to transfer the domain.
Does that means that seller can deny any bid which is under reserve value?
Yes. That's the point of a reserve.
A reserve value is typically used in auctions instead of a higher minimum bid, because it helps establish interest from bidders who will generally perceive the value to be higher when they see other people are bidding, but who might be put off by needing to make a large opening bid.
@someTom said:
whats the point of bidding $10...$12...$15 amounts when there is a reserve of $500?
why not simply set a starting price of $500?
This part of the rules for domain sales limits the starting bid.
Maximum starting bid is $7 or you can specify a BIN price (not both)
Ngl reverse is stupid, cuz like in this case reverse is set at 500$, then i can bit 499$ without any intentions to pay, and that technically would be legal
@someTom said:
whats the point of bidding $10...$12...$15 amounts when there is a reserve of $500?
why not simply set a starting price of $500?
This part of the rules for domain sales limits the starting bid.
Maximum starting bid is $7 or you can specify a BIN price (not both)
Ngl reverse is stupid, cuz like in this case reverse is set at 500$, then i can bit 499$ without any intentions to pay, and that technically would be legal
@FrankZ said:
Yes, if the reserve price is not met by the highest bidder at the end of the auction period the seller may choose to accept the highest bid price, but is under no obligation to do so. If the seller does accept the highest bid, even if it did not meet the reserve price, the bidder is required to follow through with payment and the seller is required to transfer the domain.
@someTom said:
whats the point of bidding $10...$12...$15 amounts when there is a reserve of $500?
why not simply set a starting price of $500?
This part of the rules for domain sales limits the starting bid.
Maximum starting bid is $7 or you can specify a BIN price (not both)
Ngl reverse is stupid, cuz like in this case reverse is set at 500$, then i can bit 499$ without any intentions to pay, and that technically would be legal
@FrankZ said:
Yes, if the reserve price is not met by the highest bidder at the end of the auction period the seller may choose to accept the highest bid price, but is under no obligation to do so. If the seller does accept the highest bid, even if it did not meet the reserve price, the bidder is required to follow through with payment and the seller is required to transfer the domain.
This is the second instance probably where the reserve is used (i believe)... the other domain is also under a range reserve (after I tried to request some transparency)... there is a possibility that it will spill popcorn if the seller refuses to sell the domain inspite of it meeting the lower end threshold... power lies in with seller
However being in the LE* umbrella, mid to high $$$ range domains are probably never gonna sell here (realistically)...
I think for the spirit of this forum, ability to set a reserve should be weaked/ removed entirely... Else people are gonna bid and get pissed off (even if they are aware of how reserve works)... it will constitute a waste of time from buyers side
I understand that from a sellers side, they would like to gain the best amount possible vs on the buyers side the cheapest amount... Hence they provide "comps" with the hope that someone may see some value and bid high...
I think we are not the domain selling platform which will attract super premium domains (there are exceptions) for the most part...
I think if the rules are tweaked to meet the audience would make keeping reserve a little more fun....
I am proposing an arbitrary Max reserve amount of $150... (this number can be debated)
Or
Remove reserves entirely and keep it simple auction bidding or BIN
@FrankZ said: This part of the rules for domain sales limits the starting bid.
i think many - like me - didnt understand that the reserve means that the seller can chose to sell or not, so its not entirely pointless to bid below the reserve, but still a $7 bid is unlikely to win with a $500 reserve. maybe the reserve should also be somewhat limited to "lowend"
This is the second instance probably where the reserve is used (i believe)... the other domain is also under a range reserve (after I tried to request some transparency)... there is a possibility that it will spill popcorn if the seller refuses to sell the domain inspite of it meeting the lower end threshold... power lies in with seller
I am pretty sure I know which auction you are speaking of here. That auction had a specific hidden reserve that the seller notified me of beforehand. If the auction price had met the reserve the seller would have been required to transfer the domain to the highest bidder. The hidden reserve price that was told to me beforehand was contained in range the seller gave in the open.
However being in the LE* umbrella, mid to high $$$ range domains are probably never gonna sell here (realistically)...
Agreed, but I have been surprised by some of the prices that people have gotten for domains here. The rules do allow the seller the option to control the price at which they will transfer their domain to a large degree, but if the seller does not understand the value of the domain in this market it does not sell. I really don't see anything wrong with that.
I think for the spirit of this forum, ability to set a reserve should be weaked/ removed entirely... Else people are gonna bid and get pissed off (even if they are aware of how reserve works)... it will constitute a waste of time from buyers side
I understand that from a sellers side, they would like to gain the best amount possible vs on the buyers side the cheapest amount... Hence they provide "comps" with the hope that someone may see some value and bid high...
I think we are not the domain selling platform which will attract super premium domains (there are exceptions) for the most part...
I think if the rules are tweaked to meet the audience would make keeping reserve a little more fun....
I am proposing an arbitrary Max reserve amount of $150... (this number can be debated)
Or
Remove reserves entirely and keep it simple auction bidding or BIN
If I am correct those domain selling rules have been here for a long time, and there has not been any recent changes. There also has not been any discussion, that I am aware of, about changing the rules on domain sales.
This is the second instance probably where the reserve is used (i believe)... the other domain is also under a range reserve (after I tried to request some transparency)... there is a possibility that it will spill popcorn if the seller refuses to sell the domain inspite of it meeting the lower end threshold... power lies in with seller
I am pretty sure I know which auction you are speaking of here. That auction had a specific hidden reserve that the seller notified me of beforehand. If the auction price had met the reserve the seller would have been required to transfer the domain to the highest bidder. The hidden reserve price that was told to me beforehand was contained in range the seller gave in the open.
Yeh. Not saying anything against the seller there... just pointing out this thread was a spawn from there...
However being in the LE* umbrella, mid to high $$$ range domains are probably never gonna sell here (realistically)...
Agreed, but I have been surprised by some of the prices that people have gotten for domains here. The rules do allow the seller the option to control the price at which they will transfer their domain to a large degree, but if the seller does not understand the value of the domain in this market it does not sell. I really don't see anything wrong with that.
I think for the spirit of this forum, ability to set a reserve should be weaked/ removed entirely... Else people are gonna bid and get pissed off (even if they are aware of how reserve works)... it will constitute a waste of time from buyers side
I understand that from a sellers side, they would like to gain the best amount possible vs on the buyers side the cheapest amount... Hence they provide "comps" with the hope that someone may see some value and bid high...
I think we are not the domain selling platform which will attract super premium domains (there are exceptions) for the most part...
I think if the rules are tweaked to meet the audience would make keeping reserve a little more fun....
I am proposing an arbitrary Max reserve amount of $150... (this number can be debated)
Or
Remove reserves entirely and keep it simple auction bidding or BIN
If I am correct those domain selling rules have been here for a long time, and there has not been any recent changes. There also has not been any discussion, that I am aware of, about changing the rules on domain sales.
Yup. Rules are here for quite sometime, but reserve practice is new. I think it would be nice to see if tweaks are needed to make this a slightly fair game... it's unfortunately nit possible to educate masses on how reserve works. I just feel community may be ok without reserve
@localhost said: Yup. Rules are here for quite sometime, but reserve practice is new.
Any idea on when was this added ? I double checked the rules thread and did not see any comments regarding this rule being added on later than the others.
You can set a hidden reserve on your domain by PM'ing me the domain name and the reserve prior to posting the sale, you must make it known that there is a reserve though.
Edits to the original post made absolutely zero difference to the reserve price which was set at the beginning, as confirmed by our ever-helpful @FrankZ
Reserve is a very common practice for auctions, not just online ones, and is pretty clear for anyone to follow (or should be!). They are used on feeBay and at Southeby's, as only two examples.
I agree that given the LE market here, a lower threshold for a reserve should apply for future auctions and circa $200 seems applicable.
A reserve is useful for "testing the marketplace", giving a seller the option to say "to hell with it" and let the item sell for a lesser amount. IMO, a hidden reserve is a PITA from a buyer's perspective but a declared one "sets the bar" right from the outset.
A healthy discussion is a good thing, and luckily it happened in your thread after the auction was over.
Personally I think that if we set a reserve limit, then sellers that want more for their domain than the reserve limit will just list the domain with a BIN that is above the reserve limit, or not list the domain for sale at LES. I guess the question I am seeking an answer to is... Does setting a reserve limit of say $150 make it more or less likely that members will have the opportunity to buy good domains ?
@FrankZ said:
Does setting a reserve limit of say $150 make it more or less likely that members will have the opportunity to buy good domains ?
i guess the same question would apply to does a $7 limit on hosting make it less likely that you can buy good hosting here. thats the spirit...
I see domains and hosting as apples and oranges, but to answer your question, I do not believe that the $7/$70 a month limit restricts good providers from offering VPS/dedicated servers, but I do believe it restricts larger VPS/dedicated offers. Which I understand to be the point of the price limit rules on VPS/dedicated offers. My understanding is this is in keeping with the original low end philosophy.
I believe we should also think about seller perspective if I've a domain that cost me $$$ it won't be fair to sell it for $$ I need reserve protection, special that LES not that much active, for example AlwaysSkint domain is a great 13 years old domain with history as established brand the .net is offered for $460 a one year old domain do you think it is fair to sell it for a 26$
@toumi111 said: ..do you think it is fair to sell it for a 26$
Ultimately, it's up to the seller to set what's reasonable to them. If the prospect is there to only sell at that amount then the particular marketplace conditions aren't a good fit. (There's a Maserati for sale on Gumtree At least it's not a no-reserve auction.)
Having a reserve price in an auction (in general) is somewhat common.
The price of the reserve is not usually visible/known to others, but only to the platform, and the fact that a reserve exists, is usually stated, and at the end of the auction, if no bids equals to or surpasses the reserve price, the auction simply ends/closes with a "reserve not met".
This "hidden reserve" was added/implemented on LES in August 2020 and this gives the opportunity for the seller to auction/sell domains, to so-called "test the market" and at the same time be able to secure the domain in cases where bids and offers are no where near the seller's asking/expected price.
For domain registrations, create an account at Dynadot (ref) and spend $9.99 within 48 hours to receive $5 DynaDollars! Looking for cost-effective Managed/Anycast/DDoS-Protected/Geo DNS Services? Try ClouDNS (aff).
@localhost said: Yup. Rules are here for quite sometime, but reserve practice is new.
Any idea on when was this added ? I double checked the rules thread and did not see any comments regarding this rule being added on later than the others.
You can set a hidden reserve on your domain by PM'ing me the domain name and the reserve prior to posting the sale, you must make it known that there is a reserve though.
Sorry I meant new thing is an auction with reserve... on LES... rules are probably from inception...
Maximum allowable reserve amount should be no less than domain registration/renewal fee.
I have several .com domains that I spent $8/ea to register.
When I put them up for auction, I'd like to recover the initial registration fee.
Likewise, if I pay $5000 to register a two-letter .ki domain, I'd set $5000 reserve to recover the registration fee as well.
Comments
Under the rules for domain sales you can sell a domain in one of two ways at LES.
In the case of this auction I was aware of the openly stated reserve when the auction started and can verify that it has not changed.
EDIT: It was also clear to me that the reserve was $500
LES • About • Donate • Rules • Support
@FrankZ
Does that means that seller can deny any bid which is under reserve value?
https://microlxc.net/
Okay, I see
I said "vague" because
sounds less sharp than
I mean, wouldn't it be more to the point just give the reserve amount plainly without a inserting a personal evaluation (?) of the reserve amount together with the reserve amount?
In any case, I'll leave it at this and I don't question the validity of the auction. (It was simply this line about the reserve that gave me pause)
"A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)
Yes, if the reserve price is not met by the highest bidder at the end of the auction period the seller may choose to accept the highest bid price, but is under no obligation to do so. If the seller does accept the highest bid, even if it did not meet the reserve price, the bidder is required to follow through with payment and the seller is required to transfer the domain.
LES • About • Donate • Rules • Support
Yes. That's the point of a reserve.
A reserve value is typically used in auctions instead of a higher minimum bid, because it helps establish interest from bidders who will generally perceive the value to be higher when they see other people are bidding, but who might be put off by needing to make a large opening bid.
Oh this is new to me.
Never knew such thing.
https://microlxc.net/
whats the point of bidding $10...$12...$15 amounts when there is a reserve of $500?
why not simply set a starting price of $500?
This part of the rules for domain sales limits the starting bid.
LES • About • Donate • Rules • Support
Ngl reverse is stupid, cuz like in this case reverse is set at 500$, then i can bit 499$ without any intentions to pay, and that technically would be legal
makes sense when there is a bin, but not when there is a reserve i would say. because the real starting bid is still the reserve.
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So stupidly selective
This is the second instance probably where the reserve is used (i believe)... the other domain is also under a range reserve (after I tried to request some transparency)... there is a possibility that it will spill popcorn if the seller refuses to sell the domain inspite of it meeting the lower end threshold... power lies in with seller
However being in the LE* umbrella, mid to high $$$ range domains are probably never gonna sell here (realistically)...
I think for the spirit of this forum, ability to set a reserve should be weaked/ removed entirely... Else people are gonna bid and get pissed off (even if they are aware of how reserve works)... it will constitute a waste of time from buyers side
I understand that from a sellers side, they would like to gain the best amount possible vs on the buyers side the cheapest amount... Hence they provide "comps" with the hope that someone may see some value and bid high...
I think we are not the domain selling platform which will attract super premium domains (there are exceptions) for the most part...
I think if the rules are tweaked to meet the audience would make keeping reserve a little more fun....
I am proposing an arbitrary Max reserve amount of $150... (this number can be debated)
Or
Remove reserves entirely and keep it simple auction bidding or BIN
i think many - like me - didnt understand that the reserve means that the seller can chose to sell or not, so its not entirely pointless to bid below the reserve, but still a $7 bid is unlikely to win with a $500 reserve. maybe the reserve should also be somewhat limited to "lowend"
I am pretty sure I know which auction you are speaking of here. That auction had a specific hidden reserve that the seller notified me of beforehand. If the auction price had met the reserve the seller would have been required to transfer the domain to the highest bidder. The hidden reserve price that was told to me beforehand was contained in range the seller gave in the open.
Agreed, but I have been surprised by some of the prices that people have gotten for domains here. The rules do allow the seller the option to control the price at which they will transfer their domain to a large degree, but if the seller does not understand the value of the domain in this market it does not sell. I really don't see anything wrong with that.
If I am correct those domain selling rules have been here for a long time, and there has not been any recent changes. There also has not been any discussion, that I am aware of, about changing the rules on domain sales.
LES • About • Donate • Rules • Support
Yeh. Not saying anything against the seller there... just pointing out this thread was a spawn from there...
Yup. Rules are here for quite sometime, but reserve practice is new. I think it would be nice to see if tweaks are needed to make this a slightly fair game... it's unfortunately nit possible to educate masses on how reserve works. I just feel community may be ok without reserve
Any idea on when was this added ? I double checked the rules thread and did not see any comments regarding this rule being added on later than the others.
LES • About • Donate • Rules • Support
Glad that my auction sparked some debate.
A reserve is useful for "testing the marketplace", giving a seller the option to say "to hell with it" and let the item sell for a lesser amount. IMO, a hidden reserve is a PITA from a buyer's perspective but a declared one "sets the bar" right from the outset.
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A healthy discussion is a good thing, and luckily it happened in your thread after the auction was over.
Personally I think that if we set a reserve limit, then sellers that want more for their domain than the reserve limit will just list the domain with a BIN that is above the reserve limit, or not list the domain for sale at LES. I guess the question I am seeking an answer to is... Does setting a reserve limit of say $150 make it more or less likely that members will have the opportunity to buy good domains ?
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i guess the same question would apply to does a $7 limit on hosting make it less likely that you can buy good hosting here. thats the spirit...
A 7/70 rule? $7 max. starting price, $70 max. reserve?
just a thought.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
I don't have a dog in this show so I am going to ask you if you would you have listed your domain if that was the rule ?
EDIT: I'll point the rest of the staff at this thread so it can have a broader view point.
I see domains and hosting as apples and oranges, but to answer your question, I do not believe that the $7/$70 a month limit restricts good providers from offering VPS/dedicated servers, but I do believe it restricts larger VPS/dedicated offers. Which I understand to be the point of the price limit rules on VPS/dedicated offers. My understanding is this is in keeping with the original low end philosophy.
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Not for that particular domain but for more "throwaway" ones, yes.
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NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
I believe we should also think about seller perspective if I've a domain that cost me $$$ it won't be fair to sell it for $$ I need reserve protection, special that LES not that much active, for example AlwaysSkint domain is a great 13 years old domain with history as established brand the .net is offered for $460 a one year old domain do you think it is fair to sell it for a 26$
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Ultimately, it's up to the seller to set what's reasonable to them. If the prospect is there to only sell at that amount then the particular marketplace conditions aren't a good fit. (There's a Maserati for sale on Gumtree
At least it's not a no-reserve auction.)
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NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
I am opposed to having too many rules or too precise rules.
Fools always find ways to get scammed anyway.
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Reserve can't be higher than the amount of days you've been on LES?
Hey teamacc. You're a dick. (c) Jon Biloh, 2020.
Just wanted to add something.
Having a reserve price in an auction (in general) is somewhat common.
The price of the reserve is not usually visible/known to others, but only to the platform, and the fact that a reserve exists, is usually stated, and at the end of the auction, if no bids equals to or surpasses the reserve price, the auction simply ends/closes with a "reserve not met".
This "hidden reserve" was added/implemented on LES in August 2020 and this gives the opportunity for the seller to auction/sell domains, to so-called "test the market" and at the same time be able to secure the domain in cases where bids and offers are no where near the seller's asking/expected price.
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Sorry I meant new thing is an auction with reserve... on LES... rules are probably from inception...
Maximum allowable reserve amount should be no less than domain registration/renewal fee.
I have several .com domains that I spent $8/ea to register.
When I put them up for auction, I'd like to recover the initial registration fee.
Likewise, if I pay $5000 to register a two-letter .ki domain, I'd set $5000 reserve to recover the registration fee as well.
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