Free support

gwndilshan1989

Hi..

I am a developer with 7 years of exp... I recently found myself very interested in the hosting scene.
I can provide support for anything related to web hosting and can work on some sysadmin work.

I am looking to get experience. Looking for an apprenticeship. (Ideally where I can work with servers not just cPanel, DA, Plesk stuff)

Thank you!

AK_KWH

@bharat maybe can help you with this

vncoupon

I also looking for remote work (php - wordpress)

WSS

I think you should be very, very careful with what you are offering. Ensure that the other party is aware that you are learning, and that you don't want to be held liable for anything you break. You will screw things up, and you want to know your employer (as it may be) is not going to sue you for doing so.

gwndilshan1989

@WSS said:
I think you should be very, very careful with what you are offering. Ensure that the other party is aware that you are learning, and that you don't want to be held liable for anything you break. You will screw things up, and you want to know your employer (as it may be) is not going to sue you for doing so.

Even the maestros screws up... I can't remember myself screwing things up from the day I did rm -rf /var instead of rm -rf ./var . That was 5 years ago.
Anyway, thank you for the advice.

I managed the web hosting arm of an Aussie digital agency with about 100 clients and never did a thing wrong. I have references.

And I want to be held liable for anything I break.

gwndilshan1989

Do I sound like a moron. I think I do. Sorry!
I get your advice. Thank you for that.

willie

Don't work for some company for free, it's morally wrong. If you want to volunteer for something, do it for a FOSS project or a nonprofit or something. And if you're a developer, why the heck do you want to work on support? Hosting is no different from anything else. It's basically a SAAS product except the service is raw VM's.

lentro

@willie said:
Don't work for some company for free, it's morally wrong. If you want to volunteer for something, do it for a FOSS project or a nonprofit or something. And if you're a developer, why the heck do you want to work on support? Hosting is no different from anything else. It's basically a SAAS product except the service is raw VM's.

Thanks for your thoughts. I personally had an epiphany:
I guess the person working for free is taking away the payment from someone who may actually need it as a support agent similar to outsourcing.

@gwndilshan1989 Respect yourself. Your work and experience as 7 years developer shouldn't be used for free for a for profit entity. May I suggest helping out with Wikimedia or an OS such as Fedora if you insist on doing things for free? That will help you gain a much deeper understanding of servers.

gwndilshan1989

@willie said:
Don't work for some company for free, it's morally wrong. If you want to volunteer for something, do it for a FOSS project or a nonprofit or something. And if you're a developer, why the heck do you want to work on support? Hosting is no different from anything else. It's basically a SAAS product except the service is raw VM's.

This logic also implies that participating in open source projects is also morally wrong. The open source project is a non-profit but a lot of people make money out of it. Ex: Redhat.

People offering free stuff are also morally wrong then, free vpses free hosting.

I too need the money. And there are things called unpaid internships if you have heard of them.
This is a strategy, a business strategy.

Anyhow, I am outta here =(

willie

@gwndilshan1989 said: This logic also implies that participating in open source projects is also morally wrong.

No the idea is that you're sharing work that you did, but obviously you should use GPL licensing unless someone is paying you to do the work. Working for the direct benefit of one company doing support is not really different than cleaning their bathrooms for free. And don't take unpaid internships either! There might be occasional exceptions where the opportunity is really something special, but once you have some professional experience there is no reason to do something like that.

gwndilshan1989

Please, can you not ruin this thread? I am not asking fro your opinions. If somebody would want to take me in, they would.
If I am okay with it and the person hiring me is okay with it, whats your problem?
Please dont tell me what to do and what not to do?

(Even GPL licenced products can be used to make profits... And I do not have professional experience in this field. Please stay away?)

rcy026

I think the chance of someone taking you in after this thread is pretty slim.
People are trying to help you, and you tell them to "stay away" because you do not like their answers. That kind of attitude is not what you want in a support worker, not even if he works for free.

comi

Hi @gwndilshan1989 !
Please Please Please Please Please don't take offence from comments on this thread and mine.
It's just everyone seem to feel there is something wrong with your offer. I have thought about this before so if you'd just let me share my thoughts.
I think offers like yours ruin it for me personally.
PLEASE DON'T TAKE OFFENCE.
I don't hate you.
I don't want to insult you.
It is your right to offer your services for free and there is nothing I will do about that.
Now back to the topic.
In a perfect world I would do the same as you.
I take tangible pleasure and pride helping people with their computer problems. Once a week I conduct free in-person courses at my local volunteering center for people who know nothing at all about computers, like elderly but not exclusive. It's on halt for quarantine atm. In a perfect world that would be what I'd do for a living.
The problem is in the harsh reality 99.9% of support jobs are garbage. And 99.9% of the time people working in support are treated like trash. Why? For a variety of reasons. But one of them is what you're doing. People use support as an entrypoint and are willing to work for free or close to free. And employer's logic is very straightforward: if it doesn't cost anything it isn't worth anything.
It is not your fault, that's simply how it is. I just want to reiterate, I see you as a fellow "computersmith", I would like us to be buddies more than otherwise.
And I'm not telling you what to do, simply because I haven't figured it all out myself.
Just sharing my thoughts.
Peace.

angstrom

I find it kind of silly to beg the OP not to be offended when no one has offended him.

The OP needs to grow up a bit and to understand that if he starts such a thread on a hosting forum, he may get different opinions. He doesn't have to agree with the different opinions, but unless someone says something offensive (which isn't the case here), he shouldn't get all upset.

comi

@angstrom said:
I find it kind of silly to beg the OP not to be offended when no one has offended him.

The OP needs to grow up a bit and to understand that if he starts such a thread on a hosting forum, he may get different opinions. He doesn't have to agree with the different opinions, but unless someone says something offensive (which isn't the case here), he shouldn't get all upset.

we all shouldn't do a lot of things that we do
such are humans
what a silly design

angstrom

@comi said:

@angstrom said:
I find it kind of silly to beg the OP not to be offended when no one has offended him.

The OP needs to grow up a bit and to understand that if he starts such a thread on a hosting forum, he may get different opinions. He doesn't have to agree with the different opinions, but unless someone says something offensive (which isn't the case here), he shouldn't get all upset.

we all shouldn't do a lot of things that we do
such are humans
what a silly design

But you agree that the OP overreacted, don't you?

Naturally, one can beg ask him not to be offended, as you did, and there's nothing wrong with asking him not to be offended, but if no one has said anything offensive, then one is also overreacting by asking him not to be offended. And what will he do (on another forum, at another time) when there's no one around to ask him not to be offended?

(In any case, I know that you had good intentions, so I wasn't addressing you in particular, so please don't be offended by my comment! )

comi

@angstrom said:

@comi said:

@angstrom said:
I find it kind of silly to beg the OP not to be offended when no one has offended him.

The OP needs to grow up a bit and to understand that if he starts such a thread on a hosting forum, he may get different opinions. He doesn't have to agree with the different opinions, but unless someone says something offensive (which isn't the case here), he shouldn't get all upset.

we all shouldn't do a lot of things that we do
such are humans
what a silly design

But you agree that the OP overreacted, don't you?

Naturally, one can beg ask him not to be offended, as you did, and there's nothing wrong with asking him not to be offended, but if no one has said anything offensive, then one is also overreacting by asking him not to be offended. And what will he do (on another forum, at another time) when there's no one around to ask him not to be offended?

(In any case, I know that you had good intentions, so I wasn't addressing you in particular, so please don't be offended by my comment! )

LOL =]

Sometimes I am cool under pressure, such "like a boss" I envy myself how cool I am. Sometimes I overreact to silly things and can't sleep even if I realise the issue is not worth it.

I mean why focus on whether anyone overreacted or not? It is to be expected from humans.

gwndilshan1989

@rcy026 said:
I think the chance of someone taking you in after this thread is pretty slim.
People are trying to help you, and you tell them to "stay away" because you do not like their answers. That kind of attitude is not what you want in a support worker, not even if he works for free.

Yeah, I m on my knees... begging ...
Now, would someone take me in?

(As soon as I posted my other comment, I was expecting a reply like this).

Everybody is up bashing me for my single comment,

But nobody can see the pointless comments made by willis,

1) By his logic, free vps/hosting providers are immoral too, because they are stealing other peoples business.
2) He is asking me to work on Opensource instead (which is not the same as server support) ... yet opensource projects are utilized by companies for profit (BSD TCP/IP stack is in many closed source products... so the BSD developers are immoral too)
3) Always "Dont as Dos" no courtesy to say "please" atleast.

I am not the one who is offended my friends. Its you

Now come at me again

ps: So funny that you think they were 'trying to help me'
No they were talking how immoral my offer is.
I mean, If I am okay with it and the other party is okay with it and it is not illegal... what is the 'help' in telling me its 'immoral'

I do not mind if nobody takes me in, I will find some other way. I am pretty sure about my attitude and how I deal with customers. You do not know me, the people who knows me know that.

bikegremlin

For what it's worth, my 2c:

You can get decently paid, yet get to learn next to nothing, being given routine, simplest tasks.
You can work for free, but have someone experienced actually take some time to teach you.

Which one is more worth to the "intern"?
Which one is more costly to the employer?

You be the judge.

There's also the benefit of the piece of mind, knowing one is not charging money for a job they are not proficient in, so they can't really say they are a professional at it.

From a completely unrelated bicycle service point of view:
To me it pays to pay someone to just go and fetch the parts from the whole-sale stores. They won't get a top-class mechanic rate, of course. And will save me the time.
But taking the time to teach someone, that takes my time, that costs the pro-rate.

Would I rather teach someone if they decided to work for free, as opposed to being paid while learning? The answer is irrelevant for your case - it's down to employers who's employment you seek to decide that. I would expect both offering to work for free and asking for a pay to have their pros and cons - as other members have explained.

When it comes to morality? Capitalism sucks, and what you, as one person does, is completely irrelevant and won't change that one bit. Do what makes you sleep better at night. Just make sure no goats are harmed in the process.

gwndilshan1989

Thanks for your comment, But I am not looking to be taught by someone. There is the task, I read the documentation and do it. That way.

rcy026

@gwndilshan1989 said:

@rcy026 said:
I think the chance of someone taking you in after this thread is pretty slim.
People are trying to help you, and you tell them to "stay away" because you do not like their answers. That kind of attitude is not what you want in a support worker, not even if he works for free.

Yeah, I m on my knees... begging ...
Now, would someone take me in?

(As soon as I posted my other comment, I was expecting a reply like this).

Everybody is up bashing me for my single comment,

But nobody can see the pointless comments made by willis,

1) By his logic, free vps/hosting providers are immoral too, because they are stealing other peoples business.
2) He is asking me to work on Opensource instead (which is not the same as server support) ... yet opensource projects are utilized by companies for profit (BSD TCP/IP stack is in many closed source products... so the BSD developers are immoral too)
3) Always "Dont as Dos" no courtesy to say "please" atleast.

I am not the one who is offended my friends. Its you

Now come at me again

ps: So funny that you think they were 'trying to help me'
No they were talking how immoral my offer is.
I mean, If I am okay with it and the other party is okay with it and it is not illegal... what is the 'help' in telling me its 'immoral'

I do not mind if nobody takes me in, I will find some other way. I am pretty sure about my attitude and how I deal with customers. You do not know me, the people who knows me know that.

Can you really read this post and still claim that your attitude is not a problem?
You simply refuse to take any of the advises we try to give you and instead go on a rant about why you are right and everyone else is wrong. Continuing to persist that there is nothing wrong with your attitude simply proves our point.

I do not need to know you to be able to tell that your attitude is a problem, it is painfully obvious just by reading your posts.

ReadyDedis

@AK_KWH said:
@bharat maybe can help you with this

Currently I'm not hiring, @ReadyDedis is the tag btw

cybertech

Error 404
References not found

WSS

Actually, I'd throw a 417 here.

ReadyDedis

@gwndilshan1989 said:

For starters, the community has given you good advice. Working on opensource doesn't mean only your product will go into use by private companies, they will rely on you for support and updates for the same product and be willing to hire you or give you a stake for privatizing that product, before you know it you're earning well and also doing something great.

I think you either didn't get what the community was guiding you towards or you're too arrogant thinking your offer to work was as if you're trying to do the community a favour.

WSS

One thing I learned by open sores is that once you put it out there, you're stuck with it forever (or approximately 5 years after you stop working on it). You have to be damn good, or make something quite useful to make money from it. I only suggest doing so to build up your resume - you'll only make a living by being a pro, or by going commercial.

I wasted several years of my life coming to that conclusion.

nullroute

The last one who volunteered to work for me in exchange for experience closed the SSH port "accidentally". Every time I see someone applying to work for free I start laughing desperately.

gwndilshan1989

@rcy026 said:

@gwndilshan1989 said:

@rcy026 said:
I think the chance of someone taking you in after this thread is pretty slim.
People are trying to help you, and you tell them to "stay away" because you do not like their answers. That kind of attitude is not what you want in a support worker, not even if he works for free.

Yeah, I m on my knees... begging ...
Now, would someone take me in?

(As soon as I posted my other comment, I was expecting a reply like this).

Everybody is up bashing me for my single comment,

But nobody can see the pointless comments made by willis,

1) By his logic, free vps/hosting providers are immoral too, because they are stealing other peoples business.
2) He is asking me to work on Opensource instead (which is not the same as server support) ... yet opensource projects are utilized by companies for profit (BSD TCP/IP stack is in many closed source products... so the BSD developers are immoral too)
3) Always "Dont as Dos" no courtesy to say "please" atleast.

I am not the one who is offended my friends. Its you

Now come at me again

ps: So funny that you think they were 'trying to help me'
No they were talking how immoral my offer is.
I mean, If I am okay with it and the other party is okay with it and it is not illegal... what is the 'help' in telling me its 'immoral'

I do not mind if nobody takes me in, I will find some other way. I am pretty sure about my attitude and how I deal with customers. You do not know me, the people who knows me know that.

Can you really read this post and still claim that your attitude is not a problem?
You simply refuse to take any of the advises we try to give you and instead go on a rant about why you are right and everyone else is wrong. Continuing to persist that there is nothing wrong with your attitude simply proves our point.

I do not need to know you to be able to tell that your attitude is a problem, it is painfully obvious just by reading your posts.

Okay. Perhaps my attitude is a problem for you and some others. But does it mean it is a problem for everyone? Maybe, maybe not.

gwndilshan1989

@nullroute said:
The last one who volunteered to work for me in exchange for experience closed the SSH port "accidentally". Every time I see someone applying to work for free I start laughing desperately.

I guess you have never ever made a mistake yourself

gwndilshan1989

@rcy026 said:
I think the chance of someone taking you in after this thread is pretty slim.
People are trying to help you, and you tell them to "stay away" because you do not like their answers. That kind of attitude is not what you want in a support worker, not even if he works for free.

I just can't understand why you keep commenting that my attitude is a problem. Thank you for caring so much
Do you think yours is okay?

gwndilshan1989

@rcy026 said:
I think the chance of someone taking you in after this thread is pretty slim.
People are trying to help you, and you tell them to "stay away" because you do not like their answers. That kind of attitude is not what you want in a support worker, not even if he works for free.

Oh and I wish I had your wisdom to judge someone and their attitude just by a few forum posts