πŸŽ‰ C1V's 15th Anniversary Extravaganza: Unbeatable Virtual Server Offer for One Day Only! 🎁

2

Comments

  • rootroot OG
    edited April 2023

    I know the promotion has ended, but out of curiosity now:

    • Do they apply VAT only for customers of European Union, or they apply VAT to everyone (including non-EU customers)?
    • Do they do the same with fees regarding bank cards?

    Stacksocial link (aff) containing a gift of $10 after your first purchase.

  • @root said:
    I know the promotion has ended, but out of curiosity now:

    • Do they apply VAT only for customers of European Union, or they apply VAT to everyone (including non-EU customers)?
    • Do they do the same with fees regarding bank cards?

    VAT for everyone unless you can provide a business ID of some kind that is outside the EU.

  • Anyone managed to grab this? Yabs?

  • @root said: Do they do the same with fees regarding bank cards?

    What they do is that they ask for your payment method and show the price of "EUR 18.30" before you click on the "Order" button.

    Once you have ordered they then present you with an invoice which might have additional fees on it (even if it's the same payment method you had selected when ordering):

    Clearly, they need to read up on Unfair pricing:

    Throughout the EU, sellers must indicate product prices clearly enough for you to easily compare similar products and make informed choices – no matter how they're packaged or how many units are sold together.
    Companies are legally obliged to be completely clear about the price you'll have to pay when they advertise or sell something to you.

    Thanked by (4)carlin0 root tylerdu adly
  • The difference is little, but it is not an honest behavior

    Thanked by (2)root adly

    "From the diamonds nothing is born, from the manure the flowers are born ..."
    F. De Andrè --- Free NAT KVM

  • @cmeerw said:

    @root said: Do they do the same with fees regarding bank cards?

    What they do is that they ask for your payment method and show the price of "EUR 18.30" before you click on the "Order" button.

    Once you have ordered they then present you with an invoice which might have additional fees on it (even if it's the same payment method you had selected when ordering):

    Clearly, they need to read up on Unfair pricing:

    Throughout the EU, sellers must indicate product prices clearly enough for you to easily compare similar products and make informed choices – no matter how they're packaged or how many units are sold together.
    Companies are legally obliged to be completely clear about the price you'll have to pay when they advertise or sell something to you.

    Also charging extra for PayPal fees is against TOS

    Thanked by (2)FrankZ adly
  • bruh21bruh21 Hosting Provider
    edited April 2023

    @dosai said:
    Anyone managed to grab this? Yabs?

    # ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## #
    #              Yet-Another-Bench-Script              #
    #                     v2023-03-24                    #
    # https://github.com/masonr/yet-another-bench-script #
    # ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## #
    
    Wed Apr  5 18:54:32 UTC 2023
    
    Basic System Information:
    ---------------------------------
    Uptime     : 0 days, 20 hours, 57 minutes
    Processor  : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v4 @ 2.40GHz
    CPU cores  : 2 @ 3300.000 MHz
    AES-NI     : βœ” Enabled
    VM-x/AMD-V : βœ” Enabled
    RAM        : 3.9 GiB
    Swap       : 0.0 KiB
    Disk       : 58.8 GiB
    Distro     : Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
    Kernel     : 5.15.85-1-pve
    VM Type    : LXC
    Net Online : IPv4 & IPv6
    
    IPv6 Network Information:
    ---------------------------------
    ISP        : Cinzia Tocci trading as C1V
    ASN        : AS212271 Cinzia Tocci trading as C1V
    Host       : C1V Hosting
    Location   : Milan, Lombardy (25)
    Country    : Italy
    
    fio Disk Speed Tests (Mixed R/W 50/50):
    ---------------------------------
    Block Size | 4k            (IOPS) | 64k           (IOPS)
      ------   | ---            ----  | ----           ---- 
    Read       | 151.86 MB/s  (37.9k) | 243.95 MB/s   (3.8k)
    Write      | 152.26 MB/s  (38.0k) | 245.23 MB/s   (3.8k)
    Total      | 304.13 MB/s  (76.0k) | 489.18 MB/s   (7.6k)
               |                      |                     
    Block Size | 512k          (IOPS) | 1m            (IOPS)
      ------   | ---            ----  | ----           ---- 
    Read       | 237.62 MB/s    (464) | 235.01 MB/s    (229)
    Write      | 250.25 MB/s    (488) | 250.66 MB/s    (244)
    Total      | 487.87 MB/s    (952) | 485.67 MB/s    (473)
    
    iperf3 Network Speed Tests (IPv4):
    ---------------------------------
    Provider        | Location (Link)           | Send Speed      | Recv Speed      | Ping           
    -----           | -----                     | ----            | ----            | ----           
    Clouvider       | London, UK (10G)          | 811 Mbits/sec   | 1.89 Gbits/sec  | 32.6 ms        
    Scaleway        | Paris, FR (10G)           | 1.05 Gbits/sec  | 1.90 Gbits/sec  | 25.7 ms        
    NovoServe       | North Holland, NL (40G)   | 68.2 Mbits/sec  | 1.74 Gbits/sec  | 33.1 ms        
    Uztelecom       | Tashkent, UZ (10G)        | 21.7 Mbits/sec  | 1.39 Gbits/sec  | 102 ms         
    Clouvider       | NYC, NY, US (10G)         | 24.3 Mbits/sec  | 1.31 Gbits/sec  | 106 ms         
    Clouvider       | Dallas, TX, US (10G)      | 41.9 Mbits/sec  | 713 Mbits/sec   | 137 ms         
    Clouvider       | Los Angeles, CA, US (10G) | 38.0 Mbits/sec  | 366 Mbits/sec   | 160 ms         
    
    iperf3 Network Speed Tests (IPv6):
    ---------------------------------
    Provider        | Location (Link)           | Send Speed      | Recv Speed      | Ping           
    -----           | -----                     | ----            | ----            | ----           
    Clouvider       | London, UK (10G)          | 796 Mbits/sec   | 48.9 Mbits/sec  | 32.6 ms        
    Scaleway        | Paris, FR (10G)           | 239 Mbits/sec   | 1.89 Gbits/sec  | 25.10 ms       
    NovoServe       | North Holland, NL (40G)   | 678 Mbits/sec   | 1.70 Gbits/sec  | 32.3 ms        
    Uztelecom       | Tashkent, UZ (10G)        | 23.8 Mbits/sec  | 1.11 Gbits/sec  | 102 ms         
    Clouvider       | NYC, NY, US (10G)         | 20.7 Mbits/sec  | 1.28 Gbits/sec  | 106 ms         
    Clouvider       | Dallas, TX, US (10G)      | busy            | 1.15 Gbits/sec  | 136 ms         
    Clouvider       | Los Angeles, CA, US (10G) | 104 Mbits/sec   | 322 Mbits/sec   | 160 ms         
    

    Their only upstream on IPv4 is telia
    Waiting for them to change it to KVM currently

    Also, there are two entires for Debian 11 in the order form but one of them is Debian 10

    Thanked by (4)dosai FrankZ tylerdu adly
  • Too many weird fees. I feel glad I asked, so that I may stay away in future.

    Stacksocial link (aff) containing a gift of $10 after your first purchase.

  • @root said:
    Too many weird fees. I feel glad I asked, so that I may stay away in future.

    this tbh

  • ehabehab Content Writer
    edited April 2023

    @root said:
    Too many weird fees. I feel glad I asked, so that I may stay away in future.

    I know what you mean... and it sucks to see the final amount add up.
    for me, vat is added and the only fee that surprised me was the paypal but that didn't make me stop,,, it was +4.5e in total more for 1 year.
    anyway have good Easter break.

    Thanked by (1)Khalequzzaman
  • typicalGtatypicalGta Hosting Provider

    Pretty sure C1V is breaking Paypal TOS, afaik paypal doesn't allow you to add additional charge to the invoice as a txn fee.

    Thanked by (2)FrankZ adly
  • @iaecm said:
    15years? But whois record shows that your website was created at 2020-09-17.
    Did I miss anything?

    Maybe the owner is 15?

    Thanked by (1)jmaxwell
  • @typicalGta said:
    Pretty sure C1V is breaking Paypal TOS, afaik paypal doesn't allow you to add additional charge to the invoice as a txn fee.

    It's also breaking the law. Payment processor fees should be at the expense of the seller

    Thanked by (3)typicalGta ralf adly
  • typicalGtatypicalGta Hosting Provider

    @foxone said:

    @typicalGta said:
    Pretty sure C1V is breaking Paypal TOS, afaik paypal doesn't allow you to add additional charge to the invoice as a txn fee.

    It's also breaking the law. Payment processor fees should be at the expense of the seller

    Sounds like trouble if he doesn't remove these in time.

  • @ehab said: was the paypal but that didn't make me stop,,, it was +4.5e in total more for 1 year.

    I don't think these practices should be encouraged by accepting them.

    Personally, I'd like to see providers adding unexpected fees (particularly after an order has already been placed) banned from this platform.

    The EU is pretty clear about this

    Throughout the EU, sellers must indicate product prices clearly enough for you to easily compare similar products and make informed choices – no matter how they're packaged or how many units are sold together.
    Companies are legally obliged to be completely clear about the price you'll have to pay when they advertise or sell something to you.

  • ehabehab Content Writer

    @cmeerw said:

    @ehab said: was the paypal but that didn't make me stop,,, it was +4.5e in total more for 1 year.

    I don't think these practices should be encouraged by accepting them.

    Personally, I'd like to see providers adding unexpected fees (particularly after an order has already been placed) banned from this platform.

    The EU is pretty clear about this

    Throughout the EU, sellers must indicate product prices clearly enough for you to easily compare similar products and make informed choices – no matter how they're packaged or how many units are sold together.
    Companies are legally obliged to be completely clear about the price you'll have to pay when they advertise or sell something to you.

    so they need to add + gateway fees and problem solved, yeah.

    Thanked by (1)FrankZ
  • I don't know about others, but I like transparency, and I like providers who include all their fees into the price of service or product.

    When I buy a burger, I do not wish to know how much the meat butcher costs + veggies + sauce + work of chef + official tip of waiter + fee for toilet cleaning + whatever other fees. I just want to enjoy my burger. Same goes here: I do not wish to know the fees a provider has; just add them in the price of service from the start and be done with it without even mentioning these, because it is easier for the consumer when ordering and understanding the server which they enjoy. Clients should come first for any business.

    Thanked by (2)FrankZ adly

    Stacksocial link (aff) containing a gift of $10 after your first purchase.

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  • FrankZFrankZ Moderator

    @ehab said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @ehab said: was the paypal but that didn't make me stop,,, it was +4.5e in total more for 1 year.

    I don't think these practices should be encouraged by accepting them.

    Personally, I'd like to see providers adding unexpected fees (particularly after an order has already been placed) banned from this platform.

    The EU is pretty clear about this

    Throughout the EU, sellers must indicate product prices clearly enough for you to easily compare similar products and make informed choices – no matter how they're packaged or how many units are sold together.
    Companies are legally obliged to be completely clear about the price you'll have to pay when they advertise or sell something to you.

    so they need to add + gateway fees and problem solved, yeah.

    I prefer that prices shown in offer threads are after any discounts and inclusive of all reoccurring fees. This makes it easier for everybody to understand what the price is for the product being offered. When a provider charges VAT only to EU persons without a VAT number it is understood why a VAT % is listed separately. In this case the provider charges VAT on all sales and only deducts VAT when a company with a valid EU VAT number is the client. Deducting VAT for this provider would be the exception, as opposed to the rule. IMO Charging transaction gateway fees that are not listed in the offer thread or on the purchase page, after a purchase, could be considered an attempt at deception, or at the least, a poor understanding by the provider of how this is going to be perceived by LESbians.

    What I would prefer to see in future offers from this provider is that prices listed in the offer thread are the prices that members end up paying. (Price - discount + VAT + gateway fees = price listed in offer thread.) and a statement that for companies with a valid EU VAT number, the VAT would be removed.

    Of course @ehab is also correct that clearly stating (price - discount + VAT + gateways fee) is also not deceptive.

    Thanked by (3)sh97 carlin0 bikegremlin

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  • edited April 2023

    @MallocVoidstar said:

    @root said:
    I know the promotion has ended, but out of curiosity now:

    • Do they apply VAT only for customers of European Union, or they apply VAT to everyone (including non-EU customers)?
    • Do they do the same with fees regarding bank cards?

    VAT for everyone unless you can provide a business ID of some kind that is outside the EU.

    Asking someone other than C1V - is this really how VAT works in Italy? I know VAT rules change from country to country, but normally VAT isn't chargeable to customers outside the EU. At least in UK (prior to Brexit and still), and it's seemingly this way with most other hosting companies aside from a couple of German providers (but not all).

    Thanked by (1)sh97
  • @ralf said: Asking someone other than C1V - is this really how VAT works in Italy? I know VAT rules change from country to country, but normally VAT isn't chargeable to customers outside the EU.

    Well... for business customers outside the EU you wouldn't charge VAT, but for non-business customers, I think, it's more complicated, see Where to tax?

    The place of taxation is determined by where the services are supplied. This depends not only on the nature of the service supplied but also on the status of the customer receiving the service. A distinction must be made between a taxable person acting as such (a business acting in its business capacity) and a non-taxable person (a private individual who is the final consumer).

    The supply of services between businesses (B2B services) is in principle taxed at the customer's place of establishment, while services supplied to private individuals (B2C services) are taxed at the supplier's place of establishment.

  • @ralf said:

    @MallocVoidstar said:

    @root said:
    I know the promotion has ended, but out of curiosity now:

    • Do they apply VAT only for customers of European Union, or they apply VAT to everyone (including non-EU customers)?
    • Do they do the same with fees regarding bank cards?

    VAT for everyone unless you can provide a business ID of some kind that is outside the EU.

    Asking someone other than C1V - is this really how VAT works in Italy? I know VAT rules change from country to country, but normally VAT isn't chargeable to customers outside the EU. At least in UK (prior to Brexit and still), and it's seemingly this way with most other hosting companies aside from a couple of German providers (but not all).

    If you are an Italian company, you are exempt from paying VAT. Also, if you are from outside of VAT applicability (e.g. a Chinese person, or also a German company) you are exempt.
    Sometimes you get invoices with VAT even if you should not pay it, in that case you can do reverse charge.

  • edited April 2023

    @foxone said:

    @ralf said:

    @MallocVoidstar said:

    @root said:
    I know the promotion has ended, but out of curiosity now:

    • Do they apply VAT only for customers of European Union, or they apply VAT to everyone (including non-EU customers)?
    • Do they do the same with fees regarding bank cards?

    VAT for everyone unless you can provide a business ID of some kind that is outside the EU.

    Asking someone other than C1V - is this really how VAT works in Italy? I know VAT rules change from country to country, but normally VAT isn't chargeable to customers outside the EU. At least in UK (prior to Brexit and still), and it's seemingly this way with most other hosting companies aside from a couple of German providers (but not all).

    If you are an Italian company, you are exempt from paying VAT. Also, if you are from outside of VAT applicability (e.g. a Chinese person, or also a German company) you are exempt.
    Sometimes you get invoices with VAT even if you should not pay it, in that case you can do reverse charge.

    This makes sense and is in-line with my expectations from the UK, however a company outside the EU is very unlikely to have an EU VAT number, nor should it require one to get the services of an EU-company without VAT charged.

    Actually, I realise that this is in-line with what C1V said originally, I just completely misunderstood/misread this sentence:

    VAT for everyone unless you can provide a business ID of some kind that is outside the EU.

    So, if you can prove that you are a business outside the EU you won't be charged VAT. Sounds good, and sorry for my bad.

  • @cmeerw said: Still waiting for their support to clarify how I can pay by credit card (which needs to be without any additional surcharges thanks to PSD2)

    Complete silence from their side, just automated replies from the ticket system.

  • c1vhostingc1vhosting Hosting Provider
    edited April 2023

    @cmeerw said:

    @cmeerw said: Still waiting for their support to clarify how I can pay by credit card (which needs to be without any additional surcharges thanks to PSD2)

    Complete silence from their side, just automated replies from the ticket system.

    Your question is being checked by our Legal. Thanks for your report .

    C1V Hosting is a leading data center, cloud, hosting, and connectivity provider based in Italy. Our state-of-the-art datacenter is located in Pomezia (Rome) and offers a range of services including VPS, dedicated servers, colocation, and connectivity solutions.

  • @c1vhosting said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @cmeerw said: Still waiting for their support to clarify how I can pay by credit card (which needs to be without any additional surcharges thanks to PSD2)

    Complete silence from their side, just automated replies from the ticket system.

    Your question is being checked by our Legal. Thanks for your report .

    Which one? The one about unfair pricing and payment surcharges (#672554) or the one about withdrawing from an online order within 14 days (when no service has been provided yet anyway) (#991211)?

  • c1vhostingc1vhosting Hosting Provider

    @cmeerw said:

    @c1vhosting said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @cmeerw said: Still waiting for their support to clarify how I can pay by credit card (which needs to be without any additional surcharges thanks to PSD2)

    Complete silence from their side, just automated replies from the ticket system.

    Your question is being checked by our Legal. Thanks for your report .

    Which one? The one about unfair pricing and payment surcharges (#672554) or the one about withdrawing from an online order within 14 days (when no service has been provided yet anyway) (#991211)?

    The first :)

    C1V Hosting is a leading data center, cloud, hosting, and connectivity provider based in Italy. Our state-of-the-art datacenter is located in Pomezia (Rome) and offers a range of services including VPS, dedicated servers, colocation, and connectivity solutions.

  • @c1vhosting said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @c1vhosting said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @cmeerw said: Still waiting for their support to clarify how I can pay by credit card (which needs to be without any additional surcharges thanks to PSD2)

    Complete silence from their side, just automated replies from the ticket system.

    Your question is being checked by our Legal. Thanks for your report .

    Which one? The one about unfair pricing and payment surcharges (#672554) or the one about withdrawing from an online order within 14 days (when no service has been provided yet anyway) (#991211)?

    The first :)

    I'd have a look at PayPals TOS - it's fairly straightforward to understand, You simply can't charge them - bake it into your pricing like all others do, maybe discount longer terms where you save fees to encourage it

    A higher price is better than no PayPal account when someone reports you, it's a very short sighted way to run a business

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  • c1vhostingc1vhosting Hosting Provider

    @chris said:

    @c1vhosting said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @c1vhosting said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @cmeerw said: Still waiting for their support to clarify how I can pay by credit card (which needs to be without any additional surcharges thanks to PSD2)

    Complete silence from their side, just automated replies from the ticket system.

    Your question is being checked by our Legal. Thanks for your report .

    Which one? The one about unfair pricing and payment surcharges (#672554) or the one about withdrawing from an online order within 14 days (when no service has been provided yet anyway) (#991211)?

    The first :)

    I'd have a look at PayPals TOS - it's fairly straightforward to understand, You simply can't charge them - bake it into your pricing like all others do, maybe discount longer terms where you save fees to encourage it

    A higher price is better than no PayPal account when someone reports you, it's a very short sighted way to run a business

    thank you, we're working on it :)

    C1V Hosting is a leading data center, cloud, hosting, and connectivity provider based in Italy. Our state-of-the-art datacenter is located in Pomezia (Rome) and offers a range of services including VPS, dedicated servers, colocation, and connectivity solutions.

  • skorousskorous OG
    edited April 2023

    @chris said:

    @c1vhosting said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @c1vhosting said:

    @cmeerw said:

    @cmeerw said: Still waiting for their support to clarify how I can pay by credit card (which needs to be without any additional surcharges thanks to PSD2)

    Complete silence from their side, just automated replies from the ticket system.

    Your question is being checked by our Legal. Thanks for your report .

    Which one? The one about unfair pricing and payment surcharges (#672554) or the one about withdrawing from an online order within 14 days (when no service has been provided yet anyway) (#991211)?

    The first :)

    I'd have a look at PayPals TOS - it's fairly straightforward to understand, You simply can't charge them - bake it into your pricing like all others do, maybe discount longer terms where you save fees to encourage it

    A higher price is better than no PayPal account when someone reports you, it's a very short sighted way to run a business

    This assumes of course that PayPal would do anything. Visa/MC used to have the same thing in their TOS until they lost a lawsuit about it.

    EDIT: Fact checked myself and I may be half-remembering this wrong.

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